• ggm 2 days ago |
    the other side of the AI bubble are a huge amount of 2nd hand parts of all kinds going to come onto the market?
    • mxfh 2 days ago |
      Waiting for all my out of use 4, 8, and 16GB DDR3 DIMMs that I have somewhere in a drawer to become the new gold standard first.
      • willis936 2 days ago |
        I'm finding that getting an LGA socket to give me two reliable memory channels is far more valuable than the sticks that go into them. I've got at least two motherboards in use at my home right now with only one working channel of memory. There are sticks just sitting around.
      • bhaney 2 days ago |
        My pile of worthless 512MB DDR1 sticks has bad news for you
    • venturecruelty 2 days ago |
      No, they'll be shipped off to developing nations to be dissolved for rare earths for the next boom cycle.
      • kragen 2 days ago |
        Memory chips don't contain rare earths, and e-waste recyclers pay a tiny fraction of what used-hardware buyers do.
        • venturecruelty 2 days ago |
          My point was not to litigate the precise method of e-waste disposal.
          • kragen a day ago |
            Your point was to post nonsense without caring about whether it was true or false in order to troll someone into responding. Please don't do that again.
            • venturecruelty a day ago |
              And your point was to nitpick a rhetorical statement and miss the point entirely. Feel free to disengage.
              • kragen a day ago |
                I don't think you should comment on this site again if you aren't willing to comment in good faith. I pointed out that your original statement was completely false, and rather than thanking me for the correction, you responded defensively and then attacked me. This shows that you don't care whether what you posted was true or not. That's corrosive to the presumption of good faith we employ here. If you aren't willing to behave properly, you shouldn't be here.
    • type0 2 days ago |
      Memory chips are divertied to registered server RAM and those will not fit most workstations
      • bpye 2 days ago |
        Nothing stops you building an EPYC based workstation. For the last socket you could even get mATX boards from Asrock Rack which were kind of ridiculous - I was very tempted to build my PC around one.
    • magarnicle 2 days ago |
      All in a pretty bad state of wear, I imagine.
      • bpye 2 days ago |
        At least with ECC memory it's very obvious when its failing as you'll see reported correctable errors.
    • swatcoder 2 days ago |
      A lot of the goods won't be essily repurposible for consumer or small business work loads.

      Imagine if auto manufacturers all refitted their factories and supply chains to produce military vehicles for a war effort. New family cars would run dry, and when the war ended, some folks would figure out make clever use of some surplus military vehicles for street travel and commerce, but most of the surplus would just be shifted to other military markets and family car production would take some time to resume.

      • snek_case 2 days ago |
        You can buy old rackmount servers on ebay for relatively cheap and used them as desktop PCs AFAIK (though they can be on the noisier side).
        • phito 2 days ago |
          ... and paying it back in power use
          • ponector 2 days ago |
            Use it during colder months for heating.
            • phito a day ago |
              You don't want to be in the same room as these when they're running.
      • hypercube33 2 days ago |
        AliExpress has been selling 2010 or whatever Intel xeons in dual socket desktop board kits for gaming. they are fairly affordable and hold up to almost modern games so people that can't afford new gen systems.
        • deltoidmaximus 2 days ago |
          These products are fascinating. When I looked at them it seemed like they pulled old chipsets from server boards or maybe they found stock somewhere and then combined them with south bridges from things like Z77 boards. All to make use of obsolete server CPUs that were cheap and available. Amazing and wonderful.

          Meanwhile you've got OpenAI buying up all the DRAM and maybe just piling it in a warehouse so no one else can have it or they figure out what to do with it. Microsoft recently said they don't even have a power source to plug the ton of GPUs they just bought into so they're also just sitting around collecting dust. What is even happening?

    • edm0nd 2 days ago |
      I would snag up every possible H100 and H200 if the AI bubble burst and their prices went into steep decline.
      • twoodfin 2 days ago |
        Why? Doesn’t that suggest that demand justifies the “bubble”?
        • edm0nd 2 days ago |
          to make cheap and fast password hash cracking rigs
    • gblargg 2 days ago |
      Unless it drags on for years so that the parts are old by the time everything gets liquidated.
    • Havoc 2 days ago |
      Yeah though expecting that to A) take years still and B) the gear will be old AF

      Bit like you could get NVIDIA Server cards before things went crazy but they’re on ancient cuda etc so not exactly as glorious as one would imagine

  • Daishiman 2 days ago |
    Inflation metrics seem to fail to capture the increase in leading-edge tech products of the past 18 months.
    • tstrimple 2 days ago |
      They seem to fail to capture a whole lot of things. Supposedly $1 in 2000 is worth $1.88 in 2025. So 88% inflation over the 25 years. Meanwhile the median home price has increased by 150%. Family insurance by 350%. Median college tuition by 225%. Childcare costs have risen by 200%. But sure. We can buy super cheap 65" tvs now. Hurray for us! Literal kings who lived hundreds of years ago couldn't possibly imagine a world with cheap large screen tvs. So the poorest among us should rejoice at the wonders they are able to enjoy while they skip meals and ration their insulin.
      • energy123 2 days ago |
        The inflation basket only represent a hypothetical average person, who doesn't even exist.

        It's more useful to construct multiple separate inflation measures that represent different types of people. Like a "typical renter" inflation figure vs a "typical homeowner" inflation figure. It wouldn't be hard to do and would shine a light on inequality and help explain the rise of populism in certain segments of society.

        An even better measure would somehow appropriately normalize the figure by the average disposable income in each of the segments to come up with a figure that measures the felt impact better.

        The figure would be negative for wealthy people (who actually benefit from inflation because of asset price inflation) and positive for poor people (whose disposable income mostly goes to rent).

        • kevindamm 2 days ago |
          You can go one step further than that and calculate a fairness measure using something like the Gini coefficient (*) and analyze how much it has changed over time.

          [*] https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

      • pton_xd 2 days ago |
        A dozen eggs is up over 350%, but a 6-pack of Budweiser is only up 60ish% since 2000. So you know, it all balances out. Maybe drink a few extra cans of Bud with your next meal.
      • webnrrd2k 2 days ago |
        This explores the ideas behind your post: important things, like education and healthcare, have disproportionately risen in price while not-so-imortant thing have gotten less expensive.

        https://www.yesigiveafig.com/p/part-1-my-life-is-a-lie

        I don't exactly agree with the numbers, but I think the basic ideas are true

      • actionfromafar 16 hours ago |
        Making America Great Again, Beer and TV.
    • nick49488171 2 days ago |
      Sure how does it compare to similar low, middle, high end cpu prices? NVME drives?
    • outside1234 2 days ago |
      They don’t capture anything going up because that would shame dear leader
    • kragen 2 days ago |
      If we measure the value of the dollar against megabytes of RAM, well, in 01987, the difference between a StarBoard with "2 megs space" and a StarBoard with "2 megs installed" was US$484 (https://archive.org/details/amazing-computing-magazine-1987-...), so a "meg" of RAM cost US$242. Today https://pcpartpicker.com/trends/price/memory/ says "DDR4-3200 2x8GB" costs US$108; if that means 16GiB, as in 16384 "megs", a "meg" of RAM costs US$0.0066 today.

      So the dollar's value has increased by roughly a factor of 36700 over those 38 years, averaging 32% per year.

      That would be an average yearly inflation of -24%.

      Too bad you can't live in DRAM or eat it when you're hungry.

      • antisthenes 2 days ago |
        > If we measure the value of the dollar against megabytes of RAM

        We should be measuring it by the amount of RAM in a typical household PC in 1987 and today.

        Even though a "meg" of RAM costs less than 1 cent today, I can't do anything useful with it.

        Even if we are generous and buy a whole $1 of RAM today, it only gets us 150 MB of RAM, which, while infinitely more useful than 1MB, is still completely useless for running a modern OS/Browser.

        What does your math say about that?

        • adrianN 2 days ago |
          You can still run software from 1987 on a megabyte of ram, it just does different things from a modern browser.
        • kragen 2 days ago |
          Math says that's stupid. You can still do everything with a "meg" of RAM that you could do in 01987. In fact, the "meg" of RAM you get now is enormously faster, and you can interface it to other things that you couldn't get at the time, such as SSDs, so you can do strictly more with it.

          Economics says you're spending newly abundant resources freely in order to conserve those that are still scarce. Economics also predicts that people will adapt to RAM prices doubling by using RAM more frugally, spending more of other resources to compensate.

  • mxfh 2 days ago |
    To put this in long term relation.

    Even current DDR4 3200 DIMM prices are at an all time high.

    These are 6+ year old chip specs now!

    I even thought stuff was overpriced four years ago in mid-2021 already, but this is a whole new level.

    Some sample long term data for those:

    https://geizhals.eu/?phist=2151624&age=9999

    • thescriptkiddie 2 days ago |
      anyone want to buy a 2x16 GB DDR4-3200 kit that only fails memtest86 some of the time?
      • krackers 2 days ago |
        I wonder if semi-reliable RAM could be made to work for training. After all gradient descent already works in a stochastic environment, so maybe the noise from a few flipped bits doesn't matter too much.
        • sznio 2 days ago |
          Also, depends on the nature of the error. If only a small memory range is affected, you could patch the kernel to avoid it.
      • deltoidmaximus 2 days ago |
        Have you tried underclocking or loosening the timings?
        • kasabali 2 days ago |
          my experience is if even memtest86 fails the memory is truly borked.
          • deltoidmaximus 2 days ago |
            Well, it kind of depends. With XMP (which is overclocking) I've found plenty of kits on Ryzen not passing memtest with the XMP settings. Different CPUs seem to be able to run their memory controller harder without error.

            And then there are other factors like more sticks of ram stressing things further. I had to downclock to get memtest stable when running 4 sticks even though each kit ran fine on it's own. But that is expected as well as 4 sticks stresses the memory controller even further.

            I confess I don't have any real recent experience with DDR5 though, mostly with DDR4 on Ryzen 1000-5000 series.

      • wrxd 2 days ago |
        Sorry but I am looking for reliability. Do you have any stick that fails 100% of the time?
    • honeycrispy 2 days ago |
      Dang, I'm going to have to put my old RAM on ebay. I thought it was worthless, but I was clearly wrong.
    • wtallis 2 days ago |
      Between inflation generally, and DDR4 being obsolete and unsupported by current desktop or server CPUs, it would be unsurprising for DDR4-3200 DIMMs to be at an all-time high even without the current DRAM price shock. You can never count on old memory types dropping to bargain prices, because the major manufacturers are always eager to migrate the bulk of their production capacity to current-generation memory.
      • mxfh 2 days ago |
        That process usually takes years.

        Here the price hike was pretty instant as secondary effect of DDR5 evasion in two waves. I July and now in October.

        There is usually no shortage of old working PC components as they also are avalable used and tested from people decommissioning and upgrading systems. These are not some rare parts in normal market situations.

        I made a habit of maxing out motherboards a year or two before upgrading to an new platform. This was always dirt cheap until like 5 years ago.

      • blackenedgem 2 days ago |
        Yeah the cheapest time to buy old tech is always just when the new stuff has come out. That's when suppliers are trying to shift old stock at cheaper margins.

        You can take a look at the 5800X3D and how it was at its cheapest about 2 years ago when AMD was winding down production and Zen 4 had been launched.

        • noboostforyou 2 days ago |
          To further your point, a used 5800X3D still goes for ~$300 when you can get a brand new 7800X3D for the same if not slightly cheaper (was on sale at MC for $280). I assume the high cost of DDR5 is pushing more people to not upgrade to AM5 and stay on AM4 for as long as possible. And most people are avoiding Intel chips out of principle after the chip degradation debacle - you can see that based on how much lower Intel motherboards are even though they have considerably better feature sets than the AMD equivalents.
          • kasabali a day ago |
            Main reason for Intel boards being cheap is because they're practically one and done because of Intel's insistence on changing sockets every other generation.
    • PeterStuer 2 days ago |
      Now happy I bought that 256GB of DDR4 with the MB/processor combo of ebay last summer.
    • kasabali 2 days ago |
      Had CXMT not stop DDR4 manufacturing earlier this year, they'd at least cornered that market.

      Unfortunately now they're too late on making the bank with DDR5, too: https://www.reuters.com/commentary/breakingviews/chinas-chip...

    • blindriver 2 days ago |
      My 64 GB of DDR4 3200 RAM has tripled in price to $600. I am seriously considering selling it and just waiting for prices to drop again.
  • wnevets 2 days ago |
    If these prices don't return back to normal I just don't see how Valves steam machine is less than $1,000 USD.
    • teaearlgraycold 2 days ago |
      They would already have contracts in place.
      • wkat4242 2 days ago |
        For a while, yes. But I'm sure they will want to sell it for longer than a year or so.

        Even Samsung is running into this issue now: their own internal foundry is refusing to give them a long term contract now so the S26 series will become more expensive.

        If this happens to Samsung, what leverage will a player like Valve have?

        • pixelfarmer 2 days ago |
          > Even Samsung is running into this issue now [...]

          These large corpos are so greedy to the point they harm themselves. I remember something similar with Amazon, where the Amazon shop had to redo the whole architecture from some microservice setup back to a monolithic approach because they used AWS and paid these weirdly structured prices like everyone else. Which made running a monolithic architecture under such constraints inherently cheaper. Not sure what the resulting compounded business cost for this "endeavor" was, but more often that not such things are never accounted for, so they don't show up as an issue.

      • energy123 2 days ago |
        That's their costs, not our costs. Regular PCs will cost more, which means Valve can price their consoles higher and collect margin, because there's no other competition/substitutes.
        • swatcoder 2 days ago |
          Maybe, but from a platform and brand development perspective, there may be smarter strategies.

          Their interest isn't necessarily in squeezing out the most margin on each unit. If unexpected market conditions let them more or less hit their original margin targets but get far more units installed in homes, that could be much better for them in the long term.

          There's a lot we can't know as outsiders, at the moment.

          • chii 2 days ago |
            > that could be much better for them in the long term.

            i agree. Valve's money machine is with the steam platform, rather than any hardware sales - breaking even on hardware is sufficient imho.

            Valve's existential threat is from microsoft closing off windows somehow (or extracting rent...like a store!). Therefore, pushing steam machines which can be run without windows, is both business expansion as well as an insurance policy.

            • wnevets 2 days ago |
              > i agree. Valve's money machine is with the steam platform, rather than any hardware sales - breaking even on hardware is sufficient imho.

              Wasn't that true with the previous incarnation of the steam machine, the valve index, steam controller, etc.? IIRC their VR gear was some of the most expensive consumer level gear on the market.

              • chii a day ago |
                Those controllers are first gen stuff - for the enthusiasts. They're expensive but not unduly so, not to mention that VR is still a niche, and is unlikely to expand the steam store. The first steam machine (steam box iirc) had both production issues and also not had much enthusiast success. Likely due to low hardware specs and not targeting the console market.

                The steam deck, and now the (newer) steam machine is looking to push into the mass market of consoles, and i reckon it would be more successful. Not to mention the more mature steamOS and compatibility layer now (compared to before).

                I have high hopes for it. I want PC gaming to break free of microsoft windows.

            • keyringlight 2 days ago |
              I'd wonder how much Valve has agreed to buy other parts and tooling/manfacturing services. Then they could have scenarios where they have a pile of AMD chips and the rest of the parts, but limited or no VRAM/RAM/NAND to complete the systems so they can be sold, or they've spent a pile of money designing and working with a manufacturer to get to the stage where they can start making batches, but can't get the volume to bring in a real benefit.

              Being pragmatic, I wonder if Valve benefit from the health of the PC market, whether they'll also put efforts into helping people get more life out of their existing machines, or individuals/businesses refurbishing to sell on the used market with more confidence. There's already an angle for reducing e-waste with the win10 end of life if it can be tied into installing linux.

      • jmb99 2 days ago |
        As someone currently dealing with pricing changes for DDR5 volume contracts (admittedly, only ~30k DIMMs, but still), those contracts are a lot less rigidly priced than we (engineering) realized at the time - “agreed price” is a lot more... flexible... until the pallet is delivered. Especially because our contract is with our manufacturer who has their own contract with a DIMM manufacturer who has their own contract with the DRAM manufacturer. DRAM is substantially more like a spot market than the average consumer would expect (at least at my volumes). The same is true for my HDDs (~100k unit/year contract) and my CPUs (10k unit/year contract). At least for HDDs our contract quantities are getting honoured (and we actually still have Seagate and WD fighting for our business), which I’ve heard hasn’t been the case for smaller orders.
        • Panzer04 2 days ago |
          Yep. It's a bit like some gas projects when prices spiked due to Russia's attack on Ukraine.

          Companies had supply agreements in place but they will find essentially any excuse to "delay" delivery. You might eventually get your product but fat lot of good it does for you while you're mired in court and not getting anything anyway.

          The particularly amusing example is a project continuously selling spot LNG while saying it's not yet operational, stiffing the companies with which they'd signed long term contracts with on a technicality.

    • smallmancontrov 2 days ago |
      When Gaben's 11 organize a heist to steal the RAM wafers from the high-security vault in Sam Altman's basement, the price of the steam machine will drop below $1000 USD.
    • delfinom 2 days ago |
      In before Valve releases a video of their own DRAM manufacturing plant because "they always wanted to have one"
  • nick49488171 2 days ago |
    Apple system config upgrades not looking so bad anymore
    • nntwozz 2 days ago |
      Came here looking for this comment.

      I wonder how much price increase it takes for Apple to raise theirs.

    • shpx 2 days ago |
      On this graph, the most expensive RAM is $12.5 / GB ($400 for DDR5-6000 2x16GB). Apple charges

      - $25 / GB ($200 for 8 GB for the M5 MacBook Pro and the M4 MacBook Air)

      - $16 / GB ($400 for 24 GB for the cheapest M4 Pro MacBook Pro)

      - $12.5 / GB ($200 for 16 GB and then $800 for 64 GB more for the most expensive M4 Pro and M4 Max MacBook Pros)

      and Apple's RAM is faster than PC RAM.

      • bean469 2 days ago |
        > Apple's RAM is faster than PC RAM

        Are you sure about that? The M5 memory has a max bandwidth of ~150 GB/s, meanwhile there is PC memory that reaches 200 GB/s

        • zackify 2 days ago |
          m4 max is over 500
    • baq 2 days ago |
      Exactly. Gotten from ‘price gouging’ to ‘not unreasonable’ in a couple months.
    • oefrha 2 days ago |
      Guess that’s the flip side of selling sometimes three to four years old hardware with zero price cut (I know they’ve been doing better in the M-series era)—the price also stays there when it’s skyrocketing elsewhere.
  • stmw 2 days ago |
    Time for Intel to re-enter the memory market?
  • outside1234 2 days ago |
    Stagflation!
  • nullify88 2 days ago |
    A possible answer as to why this is happening. https://thememoryguy.com/some-clarity-on-2025s-ddr4-price-su...
    • bilsbie 2 days ago |
      Is he saying the supply of ddr4 went down because they’re switching to ddr5?
    • loeg 2 days ago |
      Scroll down. The same trend is happening for DDR5 prices. It's AI demand.
      • delfinom 2 days ago |
        More specifically, it's OpenAI quietly contracting away 40% of global DRAM capacity, only to build wafers of memory and shove it in a warehouse.

        https://www.mooreslawisdead.com/post/sam-altman-s-dirty-dram...

        • loeg a day ago |
          They're not the only player trying to buy more RAM. Every hyperscaler is also growing.

          AWS, MS, Oracle, and Google demand is growing ~100% in 2026. Nvidia demand is growing ~50% in 2026. Supply isn't forecast to improve at all until H2 2026 and it's probably ~all spoken for through at least EOY 2026.

    • StrLght 2 days ago |
      That's from June 2025. It's not relevant to current situation — prices have been rising since October 2025 due to agreements that became public in the same month.
  • jakebasile 2 days ago |
    I hate this. PC gaming is my hobby, the only one that’s lasted my whole life. It’s always been there. It’s how I met my wife. It’s how I relax after a long day. It’s how I’ve participated in so many stories that stick with me and given me so many memories.

    All of it is being murdered by the AI bros. Before them it was the crypto bros. It’s one thing after the other and I hate it so much.

    • lupire 2 days ago |
      There is more than a lifetime of incredibly great PC games that run on your existing hardware, and if this is your life's hobby, then paying an extra $100 or so every year or few is a drop in the bucket of your gaming expenses
      • jakebasile 2 days ago |
        I can afford it. Other people cannot, and the hobby is driven by a market existing for games. If newer people don’t enter the hobby as others die out, it fades away.
    • edm0nd 2 days ago |
      I mean its pretty rare to buy more RAM after completing your PC build + that single PC is going to last you 5+ years. Also mobos usually only have 4 slots in total so its not like its even going to take a lot. I'm rocking 2x48gb sticks and that's plenty for gaming.

      The prices are wild tho.

      I bought that ram in March 2024 for $384.81. Now it's priced at $1,172.99. LOL

      • jakebasile 2 days ago |
        It’s frustrating that it’s been one thing after the other, seemingly aimed directly at the thing I enjoy most.
    • Ninjinka 2 days ago |
      Increased demand for computer components for purposes other than gaming constitutes "AI bros murdering your lifelong hobby"?

      PC gaming is not "murdered", it's doing better than ever.

      In 2015 there were 3,000 games released to Steam, last year there were 18,000. In 2015 Steam's peak concurrent user count was 8.6 million. This year it's 41 million.

      The inflation-adjusted price per gigabyte of RAM has dropped from $3/GB to $2/GB over the last 10 years, even including the recent price hikes.

      So spare me the hysterics, your hobby is fine.

      And you know what? The increased demand for compute always spurs innovation, so you'll probably get a better computer in the end as a result. You're welcome.

      • platevoltage 2 days ago |
        > In 2015 there were 3,000 games released to Steam, last year there were 18,000. In 2015 Steam's peak concurrent user count was 8.6 million. This year it's 41 million.

        This is like saying "Spotify's subscriber count grew by 800% over the last 10 years. Music is doing better than ever!"

    • loeg 2 days ago |
      Just live with the PC you have for two more years. It's probably not a big deal? A moderately capable machine from 5 years ago is still marginally capable.
      • jakebasile 2 days ago |
        Hopefully this blows over in a few years and you’re right and I’m just catastrophizing.
        • loeg 2 days ago |
          One way or another. Either the AI stuff cools off, or the RAM people spin up more fabs.
          • pbhjpbhj 2 days ago |
            Well there's like 4 RAM manufacturers, so probably they will spin up new fabs but continue to collude to keep prices high.
            • marcosdumay 2 days ago |
              They were previously colluding into the most profitable production volume. If demand stays high, the most profitable volume increases.

              That means that yes, it will probably by more expensive than before this raise, but no, not nearly as much as today.

          • deltoidmaximus 2 days ago |
            They already said they aren't going to increase supply, most likely because they think the AI bubble will pop and they'd be stuck holding the bag.
            • loeg a day ago |
              Businesses occasionally change their mind in response to market conditions.